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Old 02-28-2015, 07:03 PM
Ole Ole is offline
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Hey HM,

Well it is a new year and I am ready to transform. I recently finished a chapter in my life and am looking to transform myself from a average physique to something I can be really proud of. My first 10 week stack went well, did susta 100mg/week for 10 weeks. Now I am looking to do something in the range of 12-16 weeks. I am currently 215 lbs at about 20% body fat. I would like to be around 10-12% body fat and 220 lbs. Therefore I would like to lose 20 lbs of fat while putting on roughly 20 lbs of muscle. I am wondering what is my best option in terms of a cycle? I am loking for something that is on the cheaper, easier, and safer end. Something well tested with not too many side effects. Really looking to go all in on this and transform my body. Any and all help will be greatly appreciated. I have been preparing for this in my routine and feel ready. Pretty tall order I know but just want feed back to see if it is possible and any suggestions to reaching my goal.

Any other advice on the frequency of lifting and how many calories I should be taking in would be great. I am wondering if I should bulk up first then cut, or if I can put on muscle mass while losing the fat?

all the best, Ole
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Old 03-01-2015, 02:43 PM
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Why not just do the same again but for those extra few weeks?

It's slow progression that pays dividends. Slowly add weight, take the necessary rest as you lift heavier and eat enough food.

And I just can't see how you can lose 20lb of fat and gain 20lbs muscle safely and cheaply. Even pros would find that difficult.

Honestly mate, give yourself a realistic target and don't abuse the steroids by taking excessive doses and in time you will lose that fat and gain that muscle.

By time, I'd say a year is realistic. Especially if you want lasting changes.
Stick with compound exercises, eat properly, give yourself a chance to recover and stay clear of injuries.

Hope this helps
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Old 03-01-2015, 04:40 PM
Ole Ole is offline
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Hey thanks for the info. I think the 20/20 goal is a little unrealistic, I am wondering what you think I could do realistically? I am wondering if I should bulk up first then cut down or can I loose fat while gaining muscle. What would be a better approach? I was suggested to run prop 14 weeks with primo then last 6 weeks winny. Clomid pct. little worried about the EOD pins with prop, could I use winny with sust at the end to cut down the extra I gained.

Would a goal for 14 weeks on this be to bulk up around 10-15 lbs then drop 5-10lbs fat in the last 6-8 weeks? If not what is a realistic goal? I've been on a great routine of eating and lifting and feel ready to really push myself even further.

Thank again,
Ole
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Old 03-02-2015, 07:47 AM
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Hi mate,

EOD pinning can be a pain, literally and youíd really need to want to do that! But water retention with prop is a lot less. Your choice really.

I donít know anything about winny. Never used it so maybe someone else could chip in with an answer.

As for the fat loss and muscle gain only you really know that answer. Without meaning to be rude, which Iím not, at 20% fat you probably havenít got cutting down to a fine art yet and Iíd worry that bulking first and then cutting would end up just being bulking.

If I were you Iíd concentrate on losing the fat while adding Ďsomeí muscle. If you could lose maybe 5% fat during your cycle and add a bit of muscle youíd look much better and give yourself a good kickstart for your next cycle. Especially, as, in your own words, you want to do this Ďsafelyí.

Instant muscle doesnít really last, whereas properly built long term muscle will.

Obviously, if you feel you can get the diet exactly right and drop enough carbs at the right time then go for it. As I say, only you will know the answer.

I still think 10-15lbs proper muscle gain is hoping for a lot (in 8 weeks), especially as you then intend to lose 5-10lbs fat straight afterwards.
How do you plan to lose your 5-10bs fat?


ps just noticed you said you took 100mg sust per week! That's a typo surely?

Last edited by stillgoingstron; 03-02-2015 at 07:54 AM.
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Old 03-02-2015, 12:49 PM
Ole Ole is offline
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I was an athlete who needed to be on the heavier side so in the fall I was around 25-30% bf, have been cutting since January with a steady 1-2 lbs per week while maintaining my strength. I might just keep this up until I get around 15% (another month or so) then start my cycle. I think I've decided to go with sust at 500mg/week with e3d pins. (100 definitely a typo) read more on winny and the liver issues worry me so I'm going to throw in anavar then pct with nova.

I was able to put on around 25 lbs on my last 10 week cycle but I was purposely eating bad to gain the bad weight for sport. My goal will be to drop to 210 (216 now) before I start. Then I will eat to gain 500cal surplus, 40protein, 30 fat, 30 cal%. See how much clean muscle I can put on during the first 10 weeks. Then at the end I will bring my calories down a little bit and ramp up the cardio and see if I can lean out a little.

How does this sound? I can post up my current diet and workout if that would help you get a better idea of my plan.

As always appreciate the guidance,
Ole
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Old 03-02-2015, 07:38 PM
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Hi Ole. Sounds good to me. If you can cut while maintaining strength youíre halfway there. And getting down to 15% before starting will give you a bit of leeway while bulking. I also think running 500mg sust is a good idea rather than the winny. The liver and cholesterol issues have steered me clear of it. And if you want to go safe then test is about as safe as it gets.

The problem, as Iím sure you will know, is that eating bad food will not help. Ideally youíd bulk by gaining as much lean mass as possible with minimal fat gain. And then when you cut youíre already in the right frame of mind.

Some people (loads probably) will not agree with this so take it as you want, but while cardio is great for aerobic ability etc etc, I donít think itís the best way to cut. If youíre not clever about it you will just burn off your muscles as well as your fat. By clever I mean not doing endless hours of jogging or other high intensity exercises. Youíre better off doing very short intense cardio and then walking or slow cycling to burn off fat and not glucose and muscle stores. An hour walking is boring as fuck but you will burn off almost exclusively fat stores. Half an hour of jogging will get you fit but will also use up some of that hard gained muscle. Five minutes sprinting or heavy resistance cycling on a stationary bike will do all you need aerobically and allow you to burn fat as you walk off the pump in your thighs.

Another way of looking at it, is that eating 200 calories worth less carbs will burn fat and spare muscle (if you eat enough protein during the day) while burning off 200 calories jogging will burn fat and probably just as much muscle. Itís not an exact calculation but I hope it makes the point.

Or another way of looking at it is doing loads of cardio will definitely keep you trim but it wonít help you add that 25lbs youíre after. Iím not saying donít do cardio. Iím just saying doing additional cardio to burn off fat can sometimes be detrimental. Youíre also wasting energy that would be better used lifting weights.

The best way to cut bodyfat is to cut out the carbs. Itís not easy and should be done slowly and properly with refill days etc

Thereís a definite science to bulking and cutting and training and resting and all the rest of it and thatís why itís a long term project. You shouldnít necessarily believe everything youíre told. You should weigh up all the advice youíre given, try it if you think it makes sense and then discard or use it. Iím not admitting to talking bollocks btw!

You say you want to do all this safely and I totally agree with that idea, but it will take more time and effort than pinning fuck knows how much of all sorts of stuff. But ultimately, I think youíll achieve what you want and in ten years when your health is still spot on be glad you didnít go down the more is better route. Youíll also do it with good nutrition and good training.

Good luck
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